World Dueling Academy
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
Hang-OutHomeLatest imagesSearchRegisterLog in

 

 The Next Maxx "C"???

Go down 
3 posters
AuthorMessage
Reikan
Baby Turtle
 Baby Turtle
Reikan


Achievement Points : 12
Posts : 400
Reputation : 548
Waifu : MangArmand

The Next Maxx "C"??? Empty
PostSubject: The Next Maxx "C"???   The Next Maxx "C"??? EmptyFri Jan 31, 2014 4:26 pm

The Next Maxx "C"??? 300px-SharedRide-LVAL-EN-ScR-1E

Tell me, is this even going to be a thing? If so, should we tech like 2 of them or 1 and side the other? I see so much potential in this one.
Back to top Go down
http://ilikeanimesobiteme.tumblr.com/
Alibaba
Red-Eyed Warrior
Red-Eyed Warrior
Alibaba


Achievement Points : 47
Posts : 2762
Reputation : 3233
Waifu : kys

The Next Maxx "C"??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Next Maxx "C"???   The Next Maxx "C"??? EmptyFri Jan 31, 2014 5:26 pm

Well this is... quite the card, it's a pretty good choice for siding and with how stupid searching has been getting it could be mained. Though i haven't really been following the meta lately so i can't say too much.
it being a quick spell is nice though i'm not exactly sure how often i'd actually get to use it in my own turn.

also i love the artwork, sangan and graceful charity taken away by delinquent dou, and i'm guessing that's tour buss in the background?
Back to top Go down
Al-Bhed
Machina Mechanic
Machina Mechanic
Al-Bhed


Achievement Points : 50
Posts : 3724
Reputation : 4776
Waifu : fem-Al-Bhed

The Next Maxx "C"??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Next Maxx "C"???   The Next Maxx "C"??? EmptySat Feb 01, 2014 2:42 am

I'll just bring up that once upon a time maxx "c" was crappy. It was not because people didn't get it, it was because it was useless in the format. There was at the time the discussion of veiler vs crow vs maxx, and even crow would win some at the time. Say for example you were in the x-saber format. Faultroll was hard to predict with it, it's not an effect but a summon, so you'd have to realize it is coming to hit it, and even if you did, the opponent had the option to just not summon it. Gottoms e-call you could chain to, but the opponent could then just pick x-sabers that don't need to be synchro summoned for them to get a refund, so in the end you just activated an upstart goblin. Say you use it vs boggart knight, same story, the opponent could just summon another self sufficient saber (boggart is already 1900 so that's one out of the way) and you just used upstart goblin. Now here comes the relevant issue of maxx c that compares to this one:

You can say that in that case, maxx c was better than veiler, because either way you were stopping the boggart play, but in the case of maxx c, you got your card back, while in the case of veiler you lost a card. The main difference between the 2 plays here though is that the opponent now has the option.
The options the opponent is given are as follows:
He could change his mind after seeing maxx c and instead of something like pashul or fulhelm, depending on his play, could get out, say, another boggart or an airbellum to take control of the field. Say boggart kills your last monster, airbellum does battle damage, you discard one, it's the same deal but your opponent's field presence is greater. And of course, nothing is stopping him from just going ahead with the synchro summon. If the conditions are correct for him to get the maximum effect of Hyunlei, that is, destroying 3 s/t safely, he can ignore you drawing an extra card, because he is destroying 3 in return, something that would not have happened if boggart was hit by veiler. Another obvious example is that he can just continue his play, summon a beater with boggart, summon faultroll, summon another beater, go for game, meaning that maxx c can stop settup turns, but the opponent still has the option to go for game. Six sams had similar examples at the time, kageki was the only thing that special summoned with an effect, so it was the only thing you could safely chain to, and still they had the option to just pick kizan for the effect and have 2 beaters, or kagemusha and go shien with 4 backrows even if you draw an extra card, if they thought that's best.

Of course formats changed, there came decks with multiple summoning effects that use the chain, or simply multiple summons in a turn that would leave them very vulnerable if stopped midway, meaning that the options maxx c gave them were more limited. It started with tengu plants, veiler would not do much there (lonefire would still go off as at the time the turn player had priority to activate an ignition effect in response to a summon, tengu is tengu) and stopping midway due to maxx c, even if it was not chained to anything, would leave them behind in card presence with a very vulnerable field. That is all format relevant.

Now on to the matters of Shared Ride specifically.
First of all, to get the most obvious thing out of the way, it's a spell, not a monster. Maxx c was extra useful not only because you did not have to keep a card on the field for it to work, which is of course very important, but also it could be used if your opponent went first, something that was very relevant especially in the Wind-Up formats, but also against many other decks. Also, you are keeping a potentially useless card on the field. In yu-gi-oh that is a big vulnerability, there are multiple effects that pick off meaningless s/t on the field at +1, usually you want one that can stop a play instead.

But beyond that, on to the effect. The inherent vulnerability of special summoning options and searching options is very different. To explain what I mean: When you summon Debris Dragon and target Dandylion in the graveyard, even when maxx c drops, you can only get Dandylion. When you summon Boggart and activate its effect, you may not target but you are still limited to the sabers in your hand, which are usually no more than 3 (most often, less). When you activate spellbook of secrets and search a spellbook card in your deck though, you have the option of getting any spellbook in your entire deck. You don't have to get spellbook of the master to fill up your graveyard just to give more cards to your opponent, instead you can get another card that will not require you to search anymore in this turn, but which would allow you to safely postpone it for the next turn. Searching is generally much more flexible and in many decks, stopping halfway is not that harmful and instead very much salvageable.

Then we come to their common issue. Decks that will only perform the action once, or at least decks that can do that. Let's take Fire Fist for example. They activate Tenki, you chain shared ride. Now, with the knowledge of shared ride, they have the option to add whichever beast-warrior suits them best. Let's say it's bear, they send tenki, destroy a monster, attack directly and now they can set another fire formation, off of which you will not draw as it is not added to the hand, but set onto the field. Even if you hit the Chicken effect that was summoned from spirit, they can just go for the conservative play from there which is just as good. Buujin function similarly, no one said they are obliged to search yamato to give you the other draw in the end phase, they can just get the bear, get another tenki, wait, or they can just search that yamato, and play something else instead, whichever works best. Against verz, you use it after their play is over and when they search their card with Ophion, nothing much happened. Even if Geargiarmor is already set and is about to go off, no one said they must summon Geargigant. Heck, they can just re-set armor and wait, or if it works better, just get another rank 4. Karakuri can ignore it altogether, since it is very rare that their play requires two searches. Inzektors will just search once anyways, again, 2 search plays are rare. If you hit the limited Dragoons discard off of Abysspike/Abyssteus/Abyssmegalo in mermail, that's nice, but it's a limited card, the biggest thing you'd do in the matchup is hitting a genex undine that sent Dragoons, that is the only +1 in the format, doesn't affect the opponent at all. Dragon rulers don't have to do multiple search plays anymore either, with all of them limited. You can hit a hieratic seal, but that could very well be all the searching they need.

Maybe I'm missing some very vital matchups, but I really can't think of any decks in the format that have to do 3 searches or something and cannot make a play that is nearly as good with 1 search instead. That comes from 2 characteristics of decks in ygo. 1) Searches (or at least the first search) happen before a play usually, because those are what get you your cards to continue the play, so you don't have to commit too much to them before doing them. 2) By nature searches don't target, and the available options are usually rich for you to alter your pick with the information of Shared Ride being revealed. If they are not rich, it is highly unlikely you are making multiple of them.

Maybe at some point we'll get a deck that does multiple gadget-like searches in a turn (gadget-like means exclusive searches, the searches are multiple but the options are limited, yellow gets only green, green gets only red and so on) and/or needs to commit before doing the searches and can't get out of it before doing multiple of them. But until we do get that kind of deck, I have a hard time seeing the card as relevant in a format. I'd rather have a card that stops the play instead of an exaggerated upstart goblin.
Back to top Go down
Alibaba
Red-Eyed Warrior
Red-Eyed Warrior
Alibaba


Achievement Points : 47
Posts : 2762
Reputation : 3233
Waifu : kys

The Next Maxx "C"??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Next Maxx "C"???   The Next Maxx "C"??? EmptySat Feb 01, 2014 3:51 am

well i really don't know much about where the current meta stands, but i do remember that not too long ago we had the edrag/spellbook meta which had absurd searching in it. and we have been getting a lot more search reliant in the last few years so it's still a card that really can shine but it does depend on the actual meta.

i mean in a duel against a search reliant deck it does have a big effect to drop it even if they control what they search, they have the choice like with maxx c to either go on and search and make their play and allow you to draw or back off and delay their play. so in a sense it is somewhat the same.

though special summoning a lot for a play is more common than searching a lot for a play it's still pretty nice in my opinion.

though i agree hand traps>quick spells
Back to top Go down
Reikan
Baby Turtle
 Baby Turtle
Reikan


Achievement Points : 12
Posts : 400
Reputation : 548
Waifu : MangArmand

The Next Maxx "C"??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Next Maxx "C"???   The Next Maxx "C"??? EmptySat Feb 01, 2014 4:21 am

Well like Al said, for this card to shine, specific searches are the more preferable option to use Shared Ride against. As it is right now, like the examples Al pointed out, conservative plays are very easy to do. Its not like doing all that searching is vital to top tier decks, it just pushes that extra plussing back a turn. As it stands, the better alternatives we have to searching are Rai-oh, Mistake, and Deck Lockdown (mistake being the better option since it lasts longer) since all three of these cards stop searching altogether.

And yes, I really agree that hand traps>quick spells/traps.
Back to top Go down
http://ilikeanimesobiteme.tumblr.com/
Sponsored content





The Next Maxx "C"??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Next Maxx "C"???   The Next Maxx "C"??? Empty

Back to top Go down
 
The Next Maxx "C"???
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
World Dueling Academy :: Yu-Gi-Oh! :: YGO Talk :: YGO Discussion-
Jump to: