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psychoturtle
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PostSubject: Banlist analysis   Banlist analysis EmptyFri Aug 19, 2011 11:54 pm

Because, you know, you gotta analyze it

First of all we start from the banned and fishborg blaster. It does seem highly unfair for it to be banned, but whenever you got a popular FTK on your hands (fish ftk was the most consistent ftk we had this format) you just go along with mass murder to appease the masses, this could be the case here. Dewloren is at 2, formula at 1 and librarian as well so it doesnt seem like it would be as bad to keep fishborg. Or is that the case? Perhaps the sin of fishborg is all those water quasar variants that kept quasar in the game easy after the banlist, or even rabbit quasar, a clear follower of the Xyz used for synchro. That being said Coelacanth and fish are xyz friendly and they could be helped by fishborg, now they get an additional hit though hurting them bad, meaning less chances for them to see play. After all it's not like konami is perfect at yugioh, they saw something that they thought to be potentially good and hit it. Either that or there is some OCG deck that is tier 1 with 1 poa, 1 formula and 1 librarian with fishborg that I am missing or they will release something to make it broken. Poor me only knows so much. So many fun decks hit... oh well, the loss of PoA is harder than that, for someone having so many decks surely there will be grief but I adjust and look ahead.

You might argue that psychics were not top tier. You'd be right, they weren't. That's not the issue. Mind Master was a source of STDs (self-touching decks), take for example the gusto ftk roro kept hyping as tier 0 (it isn't), and many others like nice lockdowns coming from them along with the latest psychics. Mind Master did all that and konami doesn't like seeing yugioh players touch themselves, no one does. Do Psychics still have a shot after this? I'd say yes, so long as konami stops releasing those stupid "time" psychic decks that require a cost to remove a monster for a turn or something and release real cards. Still, their toolboxing abilities do allow them to survive, even without mind master, they have many great cards.

Royal Oppression. If you don't get the card keep your silence. It was almost anywhere, heck I've seen tengu plants use it. If it took you several formats to get the worth of this card leave it for a few days and don't bother with it again, it's not the time to start looking at it. From GKs, sams, sabers, tengu, t.g., gadgets, agents etc. most would use it and a first turn oppression would mean a hard match for the opponent. So what is the issue of Royal Oppression? In my opinion it's luck. If it's at 2 you can count on it and build accordingly, if it is banned you count on not seeing it and build accordingly, if it's at 1 you cant build according to it so much as it is just 1 card it becomes just a lucksack card to draw first turn and troll the opponent. Although the konami reason could be the fact it stayed around for too long and saw too much play, it ran its course and it was time to go?

The Shien duo (smoke signal and LSS). Six sams are not that old a deck, at least not compared to others, so why was it hit that hard? It dominated in the OCG (that wasnt dominated by our tengu stuff), not neccessarily the top deck to beat but it stayed high on OCG tier 1 for too long, and it had to be once again regulated. Are they dead? I don't know, I am thinking about building some stuff but it won't dominate as much. Gateway was not enough, it was proven that whoever screamed "SAMS ARE DEAD" were idiots, just for believing 1 card is enough to kill such a deck. Now more were hit and they will feel the hit too. Of course the larger hit was smoke signal. I'd say they can live with 1 shi en. So I guess they can adapt. In the OCG that is, TCG has its work cut out for it.

Trishula was expected, it was at 1 in the OCG so since it was released it would be put at 1 here too, party time is over. However, because of the multitude of control decks like gks, gemini beat and sams, which in addition to sabers was all you'd see before tengu plants topped for the third time and dn'ers caught up (yeah, it took them a while), I havent seen trishula used that much more than once outside of tengu, so idk if it mattered that much. Don't get me wrong, I feel like it was hurting people, its just I didnt see as much in the top tiers of DN.

BLS was maybe the guy that brought about the priority to activate ignition effects upon summon (it was at his time and it's said he was the main guy) and now that his sin is gone he can come back for a while. Is it the end of the world? No, it's not. Every format I've seen online you people say "OMFG TWILLIGHT AT TIER 0!!!111!1!!1!" and it never happens because you just cant build it as consistent as other decks. Add to that the fact their best supporters, chaos plants were hit and milling in general outside of LS was hit because of the PoA hit, and you get BLS won't be that game breaking. Well, so long as we can activate ignition effects on summon in the TCG and we have the kevin shennanigans boosting tengu and tour guide we can make some tour guide tengu decks with BLS so long as we find useful and appropriate light monsters. Rai-Oh and veiler at 3? Idk, working on it. Those tengu tour guide stuff will dominate with these rules and BLS may be added with it but he most certainly not be the main suspect. U no hate teh BLS... for now...

Librarian, Formula, Lonefire, Debris, PoA. Ok, plants might be dead. I am not a fan of doom phrases and last time I said semi'ing debris and limiting dandy did nothing (and nothing it did, what do you think won japanese nationals, debris plants, heck you saw it happen in TCG and worlds too) but formula and lonefire were the right hits to the deck. Add to that 1 PoA and you got yourself a deck kicked a couple of tiers below. 1 Debris and 1 Librarian does hurt them but not as much (you can play with 1 librarian and I never cared about debris in plants, too simple). Debris also has his own decks and helps Xyz in a way so the future is why he might get hit.

Well, primal seed is a strong +1 (heck, getting the exact monsters you removed is big) but considering BLS is unsearchable, 1 card, and might get hurt on summon, how many primal seeds would you use? That being said some might think of using 2 and it might work so idk, maybe it's ok.

Dewloren is at 2 because of symbol of heritage again, they realized they f'ed up for leaving him at 3 and brought him back at 2. If you dont get it look it up.

And now my favourite part. Unrestricting!
Summoner Monk! Before it was a boost at 1, now at 2 it is a consistent part of the deck. I can't find all the decks to benefit by it but scraps, tengu and CBs come to mind (CB tengu beasts that we saw in the YCS deck analysis article?). Fun fact: Summoner Monk can summon Summoner Monk which can summon another beneficial lv4 for whatever. Well, you dont have that many spells to discard but anyway. I see fun decks moving to semi-competitive to competitive, and I see it soon.

Tragoedia! So much fun xyz-wise and for other decks as well. Same thing as above, while at 1 it was a boost now it is a consistent part of the deck, so you can have more well structured strategies for it. Now to find my second tragoedia for some gadget variant or whatever.

Necro Gardna I don't care one bit about, sure LS got a boost but I am not a fan of risking dead hands in favour of negating an attack, that's how much I care about negating attacks...

Swords of Revealing Light could be fun with bouncing decks but other than that heavy storm is back so...

Destiny Draw gives D heroes a boost anew, along with d heroes in diva decks, d hero turbo etc. Not too familiar with those guys (before my formats) out of Diamond Dude turbo and mali diva but it sounds like it will be fun.

Call of the Haunted is fun. Sure tour guide sangan can be a bitch with 2 calls but its main partner, lonefire is gone, so they thought it would be good (in OCG it could be). That's not what I care about though, what I do care about is those fun moments of Call'ing a Rai-Oh in chain to Duality or Call'ing a Dyna in chain to an SS effect and other fun things like that. With Call at 2 will I finaly be able to make those things. Hmm, on one hand tengu tour guide with 2 call may sound strong, but what will you be searching in that deck. Probably they will find a way to abuse though.

Aaaaaaand my favourite card, Mind Crush, finaly got out of the limited list. What does that mean for you? Not much out of the fun front of hand killing decks (dolphin control?). It does make Crush Dustshooting much more consistent, hehe. And now what does this mean for me? Do I main 1 or 2 mind crush... will depend on the format. Well, since most of you are unfamiliar with meta-calls (yeah, I can tell... everytime you rage about "meta-decks" I can tell... still, some of us try to beat them instead of resigning...)

JD at 3. Is LS and twillight going to rape everyone? Bring back Lumina and Charge and we'll talk, like this forget it, and stop screaming "TWILLIGHT TO TIER 0 !!1!!!!111!1!" every format, as I said above, it won't happen. Sure you can drop double JD consistently and be happy, however your JD is prone to BTH'ing once the rule changes and to make things worse SLR will be seeing play. Even if you twillight kids see the light it only means people will be prepared for you, and alas it is easy to do so. LS can see some more play, may go high tier, even top some YSC'es, that's all. At least that's my LS assessment. With the amount of milling involved isn't JD as strong at 2? Anyways, if you cant adapt to control it will be hard and JD doesn't help that.

3 Spirit Reaper, WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO all your hand cardz are belong to me. This is so much fun and can move into the competitive field. Now what will the spirit reaper stall say for the game? Idk, perhaps we will get a 2 lv4 rank 4 xyz that easily takes care of it? Maybe, perhaps they prepared for a new age of OTK with it, but then again, it looks like a format of control to me, so spirit reaper will complicate things all the more. We'll see...

Overload Fusion! I shall revamp my megazord rush with that and xyz. It shall be good. That is all. Other than that I dont see much difference from overload at 2 and overload at 3, at least competitivelly. Like before fun decks will come, they shall use it. Having 3 of this card makes it consistent, think of it as a rekindling for machines now if you will, in a sense.

Megamorph. Whatever was the point of semilimiting an equip spell card? Konami no baka, well, it's normal now.

Icarus helps a lot of guys now to switch into control, it is a strong card no mistake, it was hit because of BW but now BW got hit hard so probably they wanted to give one more boost. Vayu Turbo is nice now, right? Gusto special control edition? Anyways, that's one more card that hits multiple things... hmm... SLR?

For Gravity Bind there is the simple reason that stall will lead to Xyz, Xyz can go over Gravity Bind, it's not as good as before therefore it is unlimited. I mean you may fear it but think about it, you are a stall player. What do you do about Gravity Bind? Do you main 3 even though Xyz is everywhere? If you go into this predicament you will see it's not that good.

And for last I left spell and trap hate as it is the biggest shift of our format, probably rivalring the death of plants.
Giant Trunade banned.
Heavy Storm Limited.
Mystical Space Typhoon unlimited.

Giant Trunade followed Cold Wave in the banlist. Cold Wave wasn't as much of an OTK card as it was the card that single handedly shifted the flow of the game and gave advantage your opponent couldnt bridge. Giant Trunade was mostly an OTK card or a game ender. It is the card people cried the most about because no matter what you set behind a lucky trunade could do away with the insurance of the seemingly prepared but not as well prepared player. People cried, people were given the ban. At the same time it was weird, the issue with Trunade was that no matter the backrow it can get over, however the same people wanted heavy back. With only 1 backrow an MST can do the same thing a Trunade can most of the times so why cry so much for it? You were given what you wanted, but what's the point of even asking in the first place?

Which brings us to the point of Heavy Storm, MST and the format shift. Simply the face Heavy Storm exists means you can no longer set large backrows. 1 or 2 cards will be in the backrow unless you have protection like shi en, naturia beast, stardust, solemn J, starlight road etc. which means an MST can pick it up and keep your plays unhindered. At the same time it means cards which stay in your backrow and wait for a chance will gradually fade out, so seven tools will see less play and will be switched for another MST for example. Field spells and continuous card based decks will be hit as well, the fact you have necrovalley on the field means that if you set 1 backrow now heavy storm will +1 you. if you set 2 to have a healthy backrow it will +2 you. Same for six samurai united. Now instead of setting whatever you draw you have to think and calculate and at the same time you might see field spells and the such gradually fading out. Macro and Skill Drain will be harder to use for example. And the mind games will be good as well. Other things that require you to set, like morphing jar, will see less play too.

Another effect is that we now have both Heavy Storm and Dark Hole in the same format. What this translates to is no overextension in either set of zones, that means no monster or setting overextension. Remember that the role of these cards isn't giving the players easy plusses, at least banlist wise, it is controlling overextension. Because Heavy Storm exists in the opponent's deck you will think twice before setting too much. Because they have Dark Hole you may not be summoning too much. That is their purpose. At the same time with Heavy Storm, Dark Hole, Mirror Force and Torrential Tribute that's 4 cards that hit 2 or more cards at once giving the afforementioned Starlight Road more chances to shine and plus at their expense. Add to that deck specifics like BRD, JD and the back at 3 Icarus Attack with Evol boosting Offering to the Snake Deity and Bottomless hitting 2 cards with rabbit and you got some nice circumstances for SLR, to the point where one might consider not using one of the 4 cards (hole, storm, mirror, TT) because of SLR.

My hunch is that outside of the TCG madness this format will be about control, if you have to ask why, the hit of overextension in either zone and the ease at which you can summon simple xyz monsters with mini-engines, and the looks of the meta point at it. Yes, RO is gone and Heavy is coming, but it looks like you still arent going to be summoning much, anti-meta lives. How things go in the TCG will depend on the rules that end up moving it and Kevin Tewart's mood. That we will have to see, you never know.


Last edited by Al-Bhed on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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psychoturtle
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PostSubject: Re: Banlist analysis   Banlist analysis EmptySat Aug 20, 2011 12:05 am

Lyla = Lumina typo.




OMFG TWILIGHT IS TIER 0!!1!111!1one thousand one hundred eleven!!11!one1!!1eleventimestwo!!
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Al-Bhed
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PostSubject: Re: Banlist analysis   Banlist analysis EmptySat Aug 20, 2011 12:09 am

What Lyla? Banlist analysis 2426805746
they should call her Lyla, the more important one should have the shorter name, meh...
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PostSubject: Re: Banlist analysis   Banlist analysis EmptySat Aug 20, 2011 12:10 am

Very nice analaysis, it took a while to read, but it was worth it.

I'm personally fine with every change, I just don't like Heavy Storm's return.
I just love my aliens too much. *sigh*
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PostSubject: Re: Banlist analysis   Banlist analysis EmptySat Aug 20, 2011 12:14 am

Unforgiven Pretender wrote:
I just don't like Heavy Storm's return.

I second that,it's a +2 or more sometimes isnt it,and now im going to be setting at the risk of all the 5 traps i drew disappearing at a moment's lucksack.
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PostSubject: Re: Banlist analysis   Banlist analysis EmptySat Aug 20, 2011 12:21 am

UNLIMITED MIND CRUSH?!?!?! You know what this means, hide yo kids, hide yo wife, Dark World gonna be raping everybody up here.

I personally LOVE Heavy Storm with a passion. Anyone who doesn't can just blow it (ha, get it?). It teaches kids to play more conservatively, more cautiously, almost like how a lot of people play now with Dark Hole. A lot of semi-competitive decks that suffer from s/t hate can get a chance to shine this format.

As for the whole BLS controversy. I wouldn't so much call it just BS right now since the monster is semi-nomi like Chaos Sorcerer. Unless it gets BTM'd (maybe even Deep Dark Trap Holed) or Solemned, it's still a viable option. Even if it gets removed, there's always D.D.R. Provided, the chances of drawing it are low, but with the new backrow hate, cards like these are what game-pushing moves and OTKs are made of.
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Al-Bhed
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PostSubject: Re: Banlist analysis   Banlist analysis EmptySat Aug 20, 2011 12:42 am

Mind Crush is semi limited actually

Really we havent seen BLS played in a while, chaos sorcerer came back at 3 and it wasn't played that much out of plants who played it at 2 as we remember. He is not the super powerful rapeman people make him out to be I'd say. He is good but he is 1, he is unsearchable, and depending on how the rules of the game go he might be even more vulnurable. He is a 3k beater +1, good but not game breaking, without a good deck he can fit in he will be there mostly for show. Don't be intimidated by the hype or the cool name and artwork that much.

Heavy storm is banned, people whine, heavy storm is here, people whine. You just cant catch them. For me the game with heavy is fun and the game without is fun as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Banlist analysis   Banlist analysis EmptySat Aug 20, 2011 1:00 am

I guess all netdeckers can delete their fish ftk/otk decks and make their own deck for once
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PostSubject: Re: Banlist analysis   Banlist analysis EmptySat Aug 20, 2011 1:05 am

Making your own fish ftk without dewloren at 3 and fishborg would be just silly, you cant ftk
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